Pump Track and Unauthorized Trail Work

[JMoney]

I was out at BC today raking, and as I was raking I saw two college aged boys leaving with a shovel and rake. When I made it too the wooden rolll in I found quite a suprise. They had fixed the lips of the jumps leaving holes in the trail, also they had moved the old wood from the roll in onto the trail. This resulted in the top section of teh roll in (up until where it is supported by the tree) to form a drop about 6 feet in height. Its unmarked, slightly sketchy and I'm pretty sure unauthorized, I'm going back tomorrow to do a little more work, I will board it up so you can't ride it if that is alright. Just thought it should be adressed.


Also does anyone know who is rebuilding the pump track jumps because they look pretty good.

[jsavage1]

that sounds like an awesome drop!!!! Good thing you know where it is so you can avoid it. I will say that it would be a good idea to put a caution sign up (black diamond) or something but you cant roll up the woodie with any kind of substantial speed....sooooooo people should be able to avoid being sucked over the falls unintentionally. I for one am happy to see a little techy-ness added BACK to blue clay....who knows when anyone will get official approvial from anyone to do anything. And if they do....it'll probably rain the day its supposed to go down.

[Sir Peanuts]

I to hope to see some of the obsticles put back at BC but if we start doing "rouge" trail work then we might end up not having trail at all. There have been some points in time where we nearly lost the trail because of one thing or another and right now we are at a positive yet very touchy time. County has to sort out some legal issues steming from the injury that happened out there and if they feel BC is a liability then they can just close it up. I'd rather see everything go through the right channels and have us keep the trail. And then build more and more...you see where i am going with this right :p

[jsavage1]

please don't misunderstand me...I'm not saying go all full retard or anything. I'm just saying that people sue the county every day. It seems like they're using this lawsuit to shield them from making any decisions. In the mean time we're not able to ride on tech. trails. I remember when thats all BC was...uphill both ways!! I wonder if eventually they will go in and remove all the roots, thats what most riders get injured on . The county is acting like there are no other MTB parks to use as an example. It's not that difficult. There are govt. maintained trails everywhere, with all the legal stuff outlined. We are not the Christopher Columbus's of MTB. This [u]has[u] been done before. I understand there is red tape every where that has to be cut before we can progress however, It didn't take them 1 friggen week to tear all that stuff down. Where was all the red tape then? How come they could make decisions overnight at that point? N-E-ways...not trying to rant just fustrated. I knew when the word came out that they were tearing all the stuff down that it would be forever before they put it back....if they do at all.
I am happy that there are people who are dealing with the county on this whole deal cause I sure couldn't. I'm not trying to be counterproductive to all the work and sacrifice people have done lately but...what the county don't know woln't hurt em. If some one from the county wants to be involved for a change and come out to the trails and remove a jump/drop what ever, then thats fine...but a fellow biker shouldn't be soooooooo eager to play trail cop for a county who dosen't wanna get their hands dirty.

[Sir Peanuts]

I totally understand your frustration and thats why we have forums like this, so you can vent!

And don't get me wrong i am not saying we should all be trail cops, but at the same time we need to consider the consequences of the actions that occur. The obsticles that were at BC were setup without the permission of the county, none of them were built to IMBA code, there were alot of reasons why they wanted them gone. So they went. We are trying to build BC the way that is legal now. Its the safest way to protect the trail and all of us who have built it! They will not remove roots or tree's because we are dealing with wet land here or former landfill. And yes they moved quick when they had problems that could cause them to lose money. Until it costs them money they are more than happy to drag their feet.

Be patient and vent here, our time will come when we can worry about more than BC, like trails in Brunswick County!

[VTHokie]

The Director of Parks, Jim McDaniel, has asked for NO trail work to be done until he gives the OK. I just got off the phone with him and he reconfirmed that NO work of any kind should be done at the Blue Clay Park until the MOU is done and signed. If anyone sees anyone building anything or raking anything please tell them to stop immediately as they are putting the entire park at risk.

Barry A. Wray
If you have any questions about this send me a PM.

[mysteryrider]

a fellow biker shouldn't be soooooooo eager to play trail cop

He said Trail Cop..




on a more serious note..

Why is it we keep hearing about this MOU but nothings being done?? just curious.. god forbid you do any
trail work or rake the trail to make it more harmless to the public...like proir trail work wasn't "rouge" to begin with...You can PM me if you like..

[VTHokie]

Why is it we keep hearing about this MOU but nothings being done??

I can assure you that there IS something getting done on the MOU...but we have to be patient and is just the way it is. I hope the MOU can be finalized very soon so we can get to work on what needs to be done out there. Until then...do not do any work out there.

Here is a relavent section of the MOU that everyone should read...keep in mind this is from an earlier version and may end up altered in the final MOU:

4. CFC shall be permitted to make improvements to the designated property. Improvements shall only be made after written approval and consent of the COUNTY is given. Improvements shall be planned and constructed in accordance with International Mountain Bike Association, hereinafter referred to as “IMBA” standards as outlined in the book IMBA Trail Solutions. All work shall be performed in such a manner as to minimize any adverse impact on environmentally sensitive areas. CFC shall not, during the period of the agreement, remove or modify improvements or facilities without COUNTY approval.

[bikesnbeer]

I guess all of these people don't want a "free" trail to ride on, especially some people that have posted to this topic. If you want a technical trail, with huge drops, massive skinnies, and north shore ladders you are living in the wrong area and have set your expectations way too high. Everybody needs to have realistic expectations about what Blue Clay is and what it can be. And if you are on this board bitching about what has been taken down at Blue Clay, you obviously are blinded by your superior technical riding skills to realize those obstacles did not make the trail "technical", they made it unsafe due to there lack of proper construction.

Here are two solutions for you to have a more "technical" trail to ride on a daily basis:
1.) Move to British Columbia, I've heard and seen they have some pretty sick sh*t there.
2.) Sell your house and liquidate your assets and buy yourself a piece of property to build a private trail on, then you can do whatever the hell you want and you have to worry about scaring off the yahoos who decide to come and build random crap on your trail.

I am thankful for BC, without it there wouldn't be anything to ride. All of your technical riders better not ruin it for the rest of us.

[John Nelson]

first off i just want to say that I am very greatful for what trails we do have.Bikesandbeer i really hope you are not in charge of making any desicions about BC.I agree that no work should be done without consent from the county, but I don't think it's unrealistic that any of us hope for so more technical rides out at BC.there is plenty of space to add in some technical stuff that would not interupt the flow of the trails nor make it to hard for some beginners. when i started riding out at BC i would say it was way more technical than it is today.better and tuffer obsticals make it a more fun ride and make you a better rider.I'm not saying that you should go out all rogue and start building what ever the hell you want, but there are lots of parks all over the the state and country that have the best of both worlds.again I don't think it's unrealistic to want these things and to work to get them out at BC.bikesand beer maybe you should put down the beer and pick up that bike more and maybe you might just be more concerned with your own riding than busting on people who want to improve them selfs as a rider and want more technical rides if you want a slow notechnical ride good for you but way get pissed at people who want to see BC grown and become a park that no matter your skill level you can enjoy.bikesandbeer I'm not trying to take a personal attack i just don't see why you want to get all up on your high horse about how others want to ride.I would love to see BC get fixed up so that it doesn't flood as much and become a more substainable trail first, then in a little time start adding some technical stuff back to it.I love that we have a place to ride but would love to see a little more tech and I really don't think that it is out ok the ? or future of the park.If you want to stay at the level of riding you are at then keep pedaling in circles, but don't hate on riders who want some challenge in there ride.and I am against anyone who does trail work without the ok as I have had a few crashes due to someone taking it upon themselfs to change the trails to their liking and not thinking about the trails as a whole or the other riders who use it.
Ok so I needed to vent that out. I just get so upset with people who think everyone should ride as they do. I don't think that everyone one should go jump off a 10' drop but if i want to why can't I, because you said so or because you don't ride that way I shouldn't be aloud to.everyone has their own riding styles and I would love to see a place where we can all ride as we want.again i think there are things that need to be fixed first but I don't think it's out of the ? to plan for these things in the future.from what i have seen on this forum there is the want for more tech trails and i think we can get the money and man power to make it happen.just don't be so close minded about the future of BC lots of different folk use that trail and we all ride a little defferent.if we all rode the same there would only be one bike company and only one kind of bike.with sorba haveing a new chapter in wilmington hopefully everyone will get a chance to voice their concerns and wants, I just hope i can make the next meeting.

[bikesnbeer]

Mr. Nelson, no personal attack taken. We all have something, and that is called an opinion.

As far as your concern as me making decision regarding Blue Clay, I do not have any authority over any decision making; I'm just another avid mountain biker here in Wilmington. I am a New Hanover County resident and pay my county taxes; therefore I have a vested interest in BC.

By my comment of "realistic expectations" people need to keep in mind several things about Blue Clay, most importantly it is on county land. NHC is very naive about mountain biking and mountain bike trail building. A enormous thank you needs to be paid to VTHokie and SirBikesAlot for taking their personal time to be a liaison to the county for all of us. The county doesn't know how to handle the park and the potential injuries that can arise from it. So they are going to be skeptical about putting any raised ladders, drops, etc. until they feel comfortable with what they already have; and my educated guess is that isn't going to be for awhile.

Also, you need to take into account the piece of land BC is on: it is flat and is on an old landfill. We are very limited with what can be done there.

The other point is, just because you build some ladders out of wood, or throw a skinny on the trail, or make a drop does not make the trail "technical." I have rode all over this country on some very technical trails that did not have a single ladder or skinny involved. I know you want it to be more "park like" and that is a fine and lofty goal you have, but you have to realize what you are dealing with. Eventually you may get some obstacles built, but if you want some really big, crazy stuff your best bet is to build it yourself on your own private land.

I enjoy BC, I enjoy the fact so many people in NHC enjoy BC, and my main concern is I do not want a small handful of people to ruin my enjoyment because of their closed-mindedness and agenda on having a "more technical" trail by going against what the county has asked of the mountain biking community and thinking BC is "theirs" to do whatever they want to it.

[Jamie C]

I would just like to say that after reading this thread, I feel that everyone has made very valid points and I see where everyone is coming from. But like everyone else in this thread, I have my own concerns and my own point of view. First, I'd like to say that I am thrilled to have a place to ride like BC and can't wait to have other places in the area to ride at as well. For that reason, I feel that it is imperative for us to "play by the rules" when it comes to BC. If we act responsibly and do things by the book, when it comes to getting an MOU for BC and not doing trail work until everything is worked out, then it will help lay a very productive ground work for when we try to gain access to other trails. That is part of the reason why I joined the Cape Fear Chapter of SORBA. It adds credibility, insurance, and a support structure that land managers such as NHC are looking for to ease their concerns. Also, when the Subaru/IMBA Trail Care crew came out and taught some people how to build trails that are more sustainable and less likely to erode or cause environmental damage, it makes the mountain biking community look more responsible and helps give us access to more trails.

Compared to most of you, I am pretty much a novice. I don't have much when it comes to riding skill, but I am learning. And since BC is the closest trail to where I live, I pretty much learn everything I know at BC. So yes, I would like to see more technical sections at BC. But blindly adding things or changing things without the consent of the people who are to be held responsible for when something does go wrong, puts the whole park at risk and jeopardizes what many people in this forum have been working towards and trying to build on for the past 3 years or more.

I guess my main point is that although it can be frustrating at times dealing with beauracracy and legal issues, it gives us the experience that we need to ensure that other trails we work on will not have as many problems as we do now. BC is helping us pave the way.

And that was my 2 cents.

[John Nelson]

Bikesandbeer I understand what you are saying, and i think there needs to be lots of other things done at BC before we start putting obsticals (skinnies and what not), but i also don't think we should just rule it out because of potential injury. what if some spills on a corner because of some pine needles and crashes into a tree and breakes some bones or someone goes over their handle bars and puts a stick throught their check(had this happen to a friend took 15stiches on the outside and 17 on the inside to close up) what then? people are going to get hurt out there and people are going to do things above their skill level that will result in injury, there is no way around that.I know that drops and skinnies don't always make a trail tech but they can and they also offer some change and fun for those of us who are not just about the racing.I would just like to see this park have a little of everything for everyone.the more opions there are the more people will us and thats more support we can get.again i am very greatful for what there is to ride here, i come from a place where there is so many places close by to ride sometimes it's hard to pick one. I just think that there can be alot lot done with the little space we have.I just hate seeing people knock it down before even trying.

[VTHokie]

First, let me say that the conversation with the County Parks Director was a very positive one in my opinion. His goal is very clear, first get an MOU established and then work off of the agreements established in the MOU. In fact, he said he did not want to “squelch our enthusiasm” concerning the park. Neil Lewis began the MOU process a few months back and the NHC Risk Management office (who certainly does understand the risks of the park) is currently working on the MOU and very close to completion.

As far as posts in this thread…I believe if each person carefully reads (and rereads) the posts of other riders it would help eliminate most of the drama. Everyone wants a fun, challenging, sustainable, well maintained park to ride in. That is the common goal of all riders and I don’t see anyone posting anything against that. However, if some riders are becoming impatient and striking out on their own to get things done quickly and without the proper methods or authority to do so…that certainly does jeopardize the park.

I believe the goal of the CFS chapter is to promote land access, trail preservation, and new trail development in order to enhance mountain bike touring, racing, fun, and fellowship for all mountain bicyclists in Southeastern NC (I copied that from the SORBA site).

Our acting President made a very insightful statement last week when he said the initial goal for CFS at BC is to get the MOU completed. After my conversation with Jim McDaniel yesterday (Friday 12/11) that is exactly what has to happen.

Now, my personal opinion is that CFS should work on the following goals at BC after the MOU is done…

1) Remove all debris around the trails and fix any problems caused by trail erosion.
2) Examine all bridges and fix/change as required by the County
3) Improve the signage around the trail
4) Work on the wet areas on the trail to make the trail more rideable after rain.
5) Improve the beginner trail to make it a true beginner trail to attract more kids and families
6) Work on making the pump track more useable
7) Reroute the trails on the landfill and other areas to make better use of the terrain and decrease erosion.
8 Plan, get approval, and build some technical trail features around the trail
9) Continue to develop the trails and maintain them

Remember I am only talking about the BC Park. What happens at other trails will be a different discussion….and these are only MY opinions and my opinions do change as I see new facts presented by others…so the list and order of items will certainly be different for other people. And I'm sure I am forgetting some issues...this is just a quick first pass.

Three things are clear. First, the goals of CFS have to be developed by the members of CFS (not a few individuals). We have to talk about this as a chapter and then the Board of Directors will need to act. Second, whatever CFS decides will HAVE to be APPROVED by the New Hanover County Parks Department. Third, CFS will need to be good stewards of the park, follow all guidelines set forth in the MOU, and continue to work very closely with the landowners, NHC.

[bikesnbeer]

Thank you Barry for all of your hard work. We all appreciate it!

[John Nelson]

Thank you Barry for all of your hard work. We all appreciate it!

no matter what your opinion is i think that is one thing we can all agree on.

[Weinkle]

It is good to see a topic that has been more of a productive debate than firing back and forth at one another. Like Jamie said, everyone has made very valid points. One thing I'd like to point out is about the decision making. This is where Cape Fear SORBA comes in. While ultimately, at Blue Clay, the county will have the final say, Cape Fear SORBA will have the power to submit plans and projects to the county for approval. And once approved, we will be the ones that do the work. The best part is that every member of Cape Fear SORBA will have a say. No one person, or small group, makes the decisions for the club. Everything is voted on and either approved or denied by 2/3 vote.

There are also other things to look foward to. We may have other trails to work on and sooner than you might think. All local! And we are looking into more possible locations. So if some things can't be done at BC because of the county, we may be able to do them elsewhere. Also, if anyone knows of someone with land that may want to work with a group like Cape Fear SORBA, please speak up.

As for the work at Blue Clay that Barry mentioned for after the MOU is done, I think most everyone here agrees with what he says...I believe that we can make short work of a lot of it, especially with the number of people that want to see BC get where it needs to be.

Bryan

[jsavage1]

O.K. let me re-explain myself. I am in no way saying that there sould be "rogue" trail work. How ever i do like the jumps and skinnys and so on and was only expressing my excitement in seeing some new trail characteristics. I was saying that no "unauthorized work" means that....its no more unauthorized to repair a lip on a dirt jump than it is to rake, or blow leaves (lol Barry). Until the MOA is established then all work is unauthorized without approval. So Bruce Wayne is just as guilty for tearing down the wooden rollin as BatMan is for building it. We all need to work together to insure that BC will be around to enjoy. If you want a voice then join the CapeFear SORBA and vote on these issues. I am a member and will be interested in a cleaner more enviromentaly stable trail that is also fun for those of us that enjoy the jumps and skinnys. And as far as my techinal skill bikesnbeer.....i fall down clipping out of my pedals on a regular basis and am only blinded by the dirt that gets in my eyes when i do so.

[garrarddc]

this is funny and sad at the same time. i miss the technical side of the trails. thats sad. people saying things can be to technical, thats funny. its simple. if you cant do something, dont do it. guess i will have to get used to riding out of town for a while.